Forum #2 “The Ideal Statesman”
Directions:
1. Read, Contextualize, and ATQ:
- The Funeral Oration by Pericles - What are the ideals of Athenian democracy? - CHQ
- ATQ - In the eyes of Pericles, what are the ideals of Athenian democracy? In what ways does
Pericles exaggerate his claims?
2. Read, Contextualize, and ATQ:
- The Republic by Plato - What are the qualities of the ideal statesman? - CHQ
- ATQ - What are the qualities of an ideal statesman? According to Plato, why should
philosophers run the government?
3. Answer Questions on Blogger: Discuss the qualities of an ideal statesman according to Plato. Then decide whether Pericles fits the description of an ideal ruler. Base your conclusions on his speech and what you have read about Pericles in the class textbook.
- theidealstatesman.blogspot.com
Follow the Forum Instructions and Grading Guide located in your Google Drive. You also have a hard copy of this handout.
An ideal statesman according to Plato is preferably a philosopher because they can apprehend the eternal,"Surely the one that follows next in order. Since the philosophers are those who can apprehend the eternal and unchanging, while those who cannot do so, but are lost in the mazes of multiplicity and change, are not philosophers, which of the two ought to be in control of a state"(1N,A). One of the biggest reasons why a philosopher is ideally suited to be a statesman was their intellect,"It would be absurd not to choose the philosophers, whose knowledge is perhaps their greatest point of superiority, provided they do not lack those other qualifications"(1N,C). Another reason why Plato preferred a philosopher to be a statesman was their love for knowledge,"One trait of the philosophic nature we may take as already granted: a constant passion for any knowledge that will reveal to them something of that reality which endures for ever and is not always passing into and out of existence(1N,D). Pericles was not what Plato considered ideal for a statesman. The reason why Pericles was not ideal was he was not a philosopher. A reason why he was ideal is because he was smart. During the Peloponnesian war he had a great strategy to defeat the Spartans,"Sparta had the stronger army, and its location inland meant that it could not easily be attacked by sea. Pericles’ strategy was to avoid land battles with the Spartan army and wait for an opportunity to strike Sparta and its allies from the sea"(Beck,137). Another reason was he his city was managed well and should be an example upon other cities,"Taking everything together then, I declare that our city is an education to Greece, and I declare that in my opinion each single one of our citizens, in all the manifold aspects of life, is able to show himself the rightful lord and owner of his own person, and do this, moreover, with exceptional grace and exceptional versatility"(1M,G).
ReplyDeleteAn Ideal statesman according to Plato is a philosopher. For a few reasons, one is that "... philosophers are those who can understand the eternal and unchanging."(1n,a) Plato then goes on to compare to people who do not understand and asks "which of the two ought to be in control of a state." Plato tries to set philosophers on a platter that cant be touched. He only shows positive of philosophers to prove they are ideal statesman. Another point he brings up is "it would be absurd not to choose the philosophers, whose knowledge is perhaps their greatest point of superiority..."(1n,b) Plato tries to explain how philosophers are extremely smart. Finally he says "one trait of the philosophic nature we make take as already granted: a constant passion for any knowledge..."(1n,c). Plato states how philosophers are constantly learning and changing for better. Again trying to show how philosophers would make better statesman than anyone else.
ReplyDeletePlato thinks that philosophers should run the government because of the characteristics that they have. During the conversation Plato brings up characteristics that philosophers have that are "necessary" to run a government. "A constant passion for knowledge"(1N D) is one character that a statesman should have according to Plato. He must "not willing renounce any part of it as small or insignificant"(1N F). "knowledge is perhaps their greatest point of superiority"(1N C) so why wouldn't someone who controls the state have that characteristic. Pericles fits the description of an ideal ruler. Both strive for the idea of acquiring knowledge is key. They both have the same idea of "[Not] to rush into action before the consequences have been properly debated."(1M K) and that detail is key.
ReplyDeleteAn ideal statesman according to Plato is a philosopher because they can apprehend the eternal. As stated in document 1, "Surely the one that follows next in order. Since the philosophers are those who can apprehend the eternal and unchanging, while those who cannot do so, but are lost in the mazes of multiplicity and change, are not philosophers, which of the two ought to be in control of a state" (Doc1 N,A). He believes that a statesmen should be a philosopher because the contain all of the right qualities. First of all they need to have a love for knowledge and learning (Doc2 D).Secondly they need to have a love for truthfulness (Doc2 F). Plato also thought that an ideal statesmen needed to have a "genuine pursuit of wisdom," (Doc1, E) and also a "mind endowed with measure and grace," (Doc1, H). I think Pericles did not fit the description of an ideal ruler because, he was not fair minded he did not treat everyone the same. He was a lover of money. He did not care about his peoples opinions and thoughts, Also he did not want everybody evolved in their affairs and the states. However i think he had knowledge on how to rule his city/state. (Doc1 a,b,c,d,f).
ReplyDeleteAccording to Plato, the ideal statesman would be someone who is very smart and kind. He would have a deep understanding of life and death, and a love for the truth. The ideal statesman could not be selfish. He must have good character, good morals, and he must be free from worldly desires.
ReplyDeleteHi is preferably a philosopher since "the philosophers are the ones who can apprehend the eternal and unchanging, while those who cannot do so, but are lost in the mazes of multiplicity and change, are not philosophers, which of the two ought to control the state." (1N,A).
In my opinion, Pericles would be an ideal statesman according to Plato. Although, Pericles was greedy and a bit selfish, and didn't fit that part of Plato's requirements, he was very smart, and he was good at looking at the bigger picture. To me, looking into and apprehending the eternal meant being able to see the big picture and plan your actions of your country accordingly. I think Pericles was very good at that, and I believe that he would be an ideal statesman.